Curse

Water Angel · May 17, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

my point isnt all around say its bad to play solo or with pug/humans.

just like said upper people tend to chose 9/10 the go alone option.

what's for a multiplayer more than odd.

i agree guildwars is a world by itself,but if its for chose 9/10 go alone may as well go buy a solo rpg.

people go for people /strangers only when they need something,but if its the stranger who ask something they dun give a rap....things shud go both ways.

reetkever · May 17, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Angel

my point isnt all around say its bad to play solo or with pug/humans.

just like said upper people tend to chose 9/10 the go alone option.

what's for a multiplayer more than odd.

i agree guildwars is a world by itself,but if its for chose 9/10 go alone may as well go buy a solo rpg.

people go for people /strangers only when they need something,but if its the stranger who ask something they dun give a rap....things shud go both ways.

Ehm no, most of the time people ask guild/friends instead of random people

And if my heroes/henchies can't fix something, then a random party sure as hell can't do it either.

Heroes can do anything a player can, except they have better reflexes. Sure, there's the dumb kiting thing and only running most of the time. But I prefer that over a random dude complaining all the time, calling me noob, telling me what to do and go AFK for 40 minutes.

There's a reason why people don't want to take real players, and the fact that 9 of the 10 players go alone says something about the state of the game.

You should take heroes/henchies too, cause you also seem to want to control others.

Cacheelma · May 17, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Well, you could always play by yourself in the Elder Scrolls games, Mr Cacheelma :P

Which part of "as good as" you don't understand? But then again I should've said "similar game which is as good as" instead.

The Elder Scrolls series and GW are different, at best.

Xenrath · May 17, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

My advice to the OP and other multiplayer minded people (not the single player types who now seem to dominate the PvE side of it) - save yourself the disappointment and give up trying. After almost two years, and most of it playing with other people, this is the conclusion I'm fast approaching. If it weren't for the remaining ones in my friends list I'd probably not play anymore, as there are in fact better single player games (i.e. offline games, which have deeper, more varied gameplay, more fleshed out story etc) and it is the multiplayer aspect which keeps it interesting for me personally.

As things progress more and more coop minded people will leave, which will lead to a snowball effect of having less and less people to team with (who want to). Meanwhile what will be left in the end are the hordes of single player people, most of them probably farming and grinding away for essentially cosmetic titles and things.

Just be grateful these same people didn't come to UT, Quake and many other online games, and bitch and whine about those and eventually helped make them into single player games that require you to be online to play for some daft reason.

<end rant>

arcanemacabre · May 17, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Xenrath, there is another reason people see less and less others to team with that doesn't involve slow and eventual death of a game. Guilds. The people who PuG a lot tend to make lots of friends. Those people will then tend to go on and join a large guild with one or many of those friends. Guess what happens next: they play a lot more with the guild (to stay active), and a lot less with outsiders, i.e. standing around towns yelling "LFG" (why bother waiting to play when you have a list of guildies/friends?).

Xenrath · May 17, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Yep the classic response I've noticed over the months - play with guildies/join a bigger guild etc. Trouble is Arcanemacabre, guilds are not immune to this ongoing trend either. I've personal experience having previously run a guild for 1.5 years, which went up from 3 players to 80 or so at the height of its popularity - and noticed the same trend just took longer (this was an active guild where I did all I could to encourage teamplay and for people to get to know each other etc). Same tales from many of my friends in other guilds, whom I've noticed a lot of them aren't online anymore or very rarely.

From personal experience and those of most people in my friends list they were having similar problems - people in guild going off doing their own thing much of the time, herohenching it. For example they'll ask, then find out most others are off doing something - then herohench it. Which then snowballs as well. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that experience, as I recently left a very huge alliance because I felt the same thing had happened - people seemed to be more concerned about farming and doing their own thing, and outside of specific organised events there wasn't the teamplay there used to be when GW first came out.

Eventually as you say, people tend to stick to the ones they know, but even those ones leave sooner or later - so it becomes decreasing circles.

On reflection, I really wish Anet released GW as a single player game with online campaign mode e.g. like Diablo, or NWN. Things might have turned out very different...

arcanemacabre · May 17, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Notice I didn't suggest, I explained. It is a lot harder to join a big guild now, because without a huge influx of new people, guilds don't grow. The game is full of veterans now, all pretty much settled down into their ruts. Big PvE guilds no longer are recruiting, so all you see is a few up-and-comers who probably aren't serious about leading a guild. This happens as a game ages, the people age along with it and get stale.

This means, at the birth of Guild Wars, everyone's running around new, and joinging up to PuG left and right. Those people, over time, join and create guilds, some make it, some don't. The ones that do, grow and grow, but slower over time. Slower until a standstill - because everyone's comfortable and playing with each other. As this happens, PuG's slowly decrease until they are so sparse, threads like this come up.

This is a testament not to the death of GW, but rather not enough new blood, and too much old blood. This happens in every online game, but not to this degree because there is more interaction without instances.

Water Angel · May 17, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

yup. that's another problem.

before join the pvp/ha only guild i am now, i was in several big pve guilds.people even inside guilds was more bothered farm their stuff than help mates.main rason which made me join a pvp guild

if even inside a pve guild people prefer solo do stuff or keep to their vacations then take few mins for help a guildie, may as well do pvp only.

it's sad, it make people yell,
but it's true. it's easy say "go get friends/guildies for help you instead moan guru". but ya, the problem is than in more and more pve guilds membesr keep prefer solo as welll...

truemyths · May 17, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

hey I farm lb & Ss pts in Remains all the time, and certainly join up w/folks for 4 person runs (make more money via 4 man).

Now, some people wreck it... I go on 4-person runs and 1 person quits, well then I have to start all over. So, should I take 3 guaranteed not to leave folks (heros) or 2-3 real peeps who may leave or grief? I can understand leaving if there's a reason, but folks leave just whang ! no explanation.

Anyhoo, pm me in game: True Myths if interested in a run.

Cheerio

Renegade26 · May 17, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Angel

Yes. That is another problem.

Before I joined the GvG/HA guild I am in now, I was in several big pve guilds. People, even inside a guild, were more bothered to farm for stuff than help their mates. Thats the main reason why I joined a pvp guild.

If even inside a PvE guild people prefer to solo stuff or keep to themselves, then take a few mins only to help a guildie, you may as well do pvp only.

Iit's sad, and it makes people yell.
But it's true. It's easy to say "Go get some friends or guildies to help you instead of moaning on guru". But the problem is that more and more pve guilds members prefer to solo as well...

Just because of youre experience of some players in a previous guild of yours choosing to solo than help you or others out does not mean that this happens a lot or even "more and more" as you have said.

My guild is mainly PvP and I am good at PvP as a monk. I do GvG and we beat many teams, (beat some guild called L I Z Z A R D S, rank 80 something a few days ago) but I really enjoy to cool off in PvE. A real problem is that being a PvPer I love challenges that I can work out to better myself. I use Mesmers and Asssassins, and sometimes Monk, but I dont get accepted by many as the first two because I am assumed to be a bad asset to a team.

This leads me to deal with my PvE challenges with not PuGs but H/H. This is pretty much my only option, because many of my guildies can HA with their high ranks, or if there is enough for PvE there is enough for GvG, and obviously we take the latter option.

Ive never been one for finding friends in game. Its not because Im a loner, I just dont find it appealing to look for people to hang out with.

There is no way that I would join a PvE guild over the one I have now because where I am now is so great. I see myself as a good player, and we run builds that reward good play (not Bspike or some other lameness on Jade Isle) and it really is good to know that I can fill a challenging role.

In PvE the role can be as challenging as I feel like, I just cannot ever find other like minded and accepting players, and that is felt by many people IMO. I really do believe there is a huge number of people looking for each other, and never finding anyone. They give up, go with H/H, other game, PvP or whatever else they have (dance party maybe

).

If we could find each other then we would be with each other. People who WANT to go H/H can do that with no skin off their noses. People who give up to H/H would love an option to find like minded people, but there is none.

kolakoski · May 17, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Well met!

The issue of playing alone versus with other humans has at one time or another dominated the forums since forever, lol. I belong to a small guild with few players online and fewer who are not farming sunspear points or doing other personal stuff. We are about in the process of joining an alliance to address this issue. I, personally, am one of those who spend quite a bit of time alone, pursuing skills for experimental builds (I am obsessed, at the moment with creating good builds for my warrior using Rage of the Ntouka, lol) or trying to hone my team of heroes into a fighting force (trial and much error, lol). Even though I spend 10-20 hours per week playing Guild wars, I consider myself to be a "casual player", lol. I do not pursue titles nor do I care about money and flashy weapons/armor. My characters, Wo Tan Ki (Ranger) and Shihan Ki (Warrior), have everything they need in terms of equipment and skills to be effective in PvE; they just lack experience (even after all this time, lol). That having been said, I bought this game, instead of Oblivion, to play with other people. I enjoy PUGs. It is in PUGs where I get to show off that build I've been working on for weeks. It is in PUGs where I get to hang out with the "big boys" (titles and gear up the wazoo, excuse my vulgarity, lol), be a hero to the noobies, and show off (again that phrase, lol) my competence in a difficult mission/quest and/or Hard Mode. I always have fun.

My Principles of Playing in PUGs:

Remember that PUGs are made up of people; they are not merely rebellious/independent Heroes/Henchies.

Go with the flow. There are as many play styles/agendas as there are people; don't try to force things, and try to dissuade others from forcing things. Enjoy the diversity!

Respect: Give it to everyone; expect it from everyone.

Kindness: Demonstrate it to make Tyria, Cantha and Elona = Shangri La

Fun: The whole point of the game.

Please ping me in-game if you need help or just want to know the meaning of life, lol.

Water Angel · May 17, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Close this thread please.think all was said.

strcpy · May 17, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdarth

He has a point though: I didnt buy this game to solo it all the time, i bought a multiplayer game and id like people to be more multiplayer when playing it. Why not buy a single player RPG if you want to solo?

I do play a single player RPG - it is called Guild Wars.

Once more, the box itself advertises as such and it has been that way since at least launch. That you apparently chose to ignore that part or do not like it doesn't make it less there. I'd like less people spamming the local channel, less blind invites, and people pestering me. They should all just get the hench/hero as the game is also a single player online RPG.

If you want to play an MMO where everyone is forced to group, go play WoW. If you want a single player game with no interaction with other people, go play Morrowind. If you want an online game where people choose the amount of human interaction they get, play Guild Wars.

Age · May 17, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Those that talked about guilds in this thread.I will tell you this is that big guild stand a far better chance at failing than say a medium size ones.These guilds would be 30 to 35 members.When you have 100 person guild it stands good chance of failing than a smaller to medium size one.I am very versed in clans and what goes on in them as the site I work on was once a clan discussion site and we are partners with cnop.

I say this because I have seen a lot of big clans die and even my Trek Gaming clan is pretty much dead.I would of but a cap at 40 members max.This way everyone get to know all or most of the guild but those guild will attract those with the same interest like farming or eventually doing gvg.

The site I work on is <---------< or check my homepage out.

tyche7 · May 17, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

The fact is there are certain things that you almost HAVE to solo. If I go to a random town in one of the 3 campaigns and want to farm or do a HM vanquish -- chances are I'm not going to be able to find 7 other people at that random time who also want to do exactly that and not the quest or mission or whatever else there is available to do. So you HAVE to solo a lot of things. Quit whining and get used to it.

tyche7 · May 17, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

ps - it's already been said but NO ONE should ever be FORCED to play a certain way. Soloing is a part of GW just as much as PUG'ing is.

Navaros · May 18, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Angel

and if you go to club and neva bother talk to someoen else than people you already know yo uare sure neva get more friends.

even the hottie you're trying catch, is a stranger isnt she? she is, but you u still do go to her, and try get in touch...with a perfect stranger? aww cmon.

i read all this threads and seem msot of people dun seen the op like me.

i dont say people how to play, just they COULD be a lil more open to stranger or somethign else than hench.it's not like *you must pug or you're a moron*, just all pugs arent crap,and sometime give it a chance may be a good occasion have fun or get more friends.

even you gw friends,how u met them? people keep met new people in guilds,pugs,etc etc.half of people in your gw f.list are people you randomly met in game, playing with, pugging,doing missions, or talkin in cities...when they was strangers too before be in your friendlist.

now you have heroes for do missions.but before heroes how many were spending ages ina hard mission trying get desperatly a team cus henchies was too weak?lots.

Not everyone plays GW to "get friends". Rather they play to get achievements and beat challenges, like getting good titles/armor and stuff that can be shown off to other people.

Yes henchies were and are way too weak, but what's your point about that? That's not the fault of the players that the devs gave henchies total crap skill bars and with very few skills on them.

The reason most people don't PUG other than new/bad players is because most PUGs horrendously incompetent at not getting wiped or at least not dying millions of times in very easy missions due to horrible gameplay on their part. It's not a matter of "no one wants to try". They already did try, that's how they know they don't want to any more. They are well-aware of just how horrendous PUG players are, which is precisely why they choose not to participate in them.

True that all PUGs aren't crap, however ~95% of random PUGs are crap, and for this reason the Heroes & Hench of a good player will be drastically more effective than a random PUG the vast, vast majority of the time. Which makes them the best choice over any random PUG in most cases.

Water Angel · May 18, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyche7

The fact is there are certain things that you almost HAVE to solo.Quit whining and get used to it.

you speak generally or concertly?

if generally ya i agree,and i no need whine about it, i do alot of solo stuff.
but it's not cus i solo alot i waont take someone time ot another if it can help that person.

concretly : farm in sahldja isnt a thing you MUST do absolutly with 7 hench.so one human in the toss wouldent kill them.

even if understand the average pug is crap, no need generalise.

there was a thread on this forum somewhere called something like : post the biggest jerk you met.with screenshoot or dialog.
90% of posts in this thread were from pugs.and in sigh of people readin it it was a popular thread.
if no dumb pugs it would prolly be reduced to few posts.sure pugs are dumb mostly, but it's also fun to see them sometime and can lead to different situations.not always bad.

sometime the superior and imbued of yourself you, can even learn something form that dumb pug guy you so disdain....

Hippie Bane · May 18, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Except for my guild/alliance and maybe 4 people on my friends list, I play solo. Here's a short list of why, all PUG-related.

UW- Our guild advertises for a second tank. We get a warrior with an ele secondary who, once in mission, proceeds to cast meteor shower on every enemy he can while using a staff. He swore that he was a stance tank, but he lied to get a group so he could weapon switch to a wand for the aataxes. We saw /E and thought warrior with earth would be sweet.

FOW- We had an ele bring a pet along in place of a res and energy management. She then proceeds to try to berate our group as a cookie cutter build using group that wouldn't know a good player(presumably her, I'm guessing) if said player fell in our laps. Listen sister, we run two monks, one warrior/dervish/ranger/earth ele and the rest is open for discussion. Your stalker is precious, yes, but not as loving precious as a res sig and a fire attunement. We thought her /R was for decoration...

In Arborstone, I had an assassin casting Flesh Golem. He actually complained to the MM that she was using all of his corpses. The level of his mighty golem? 16. And, he was using a staff, all the time. No switching to daggers for him.

When someone asked these guys why they were doing what they were doing, the response was always the same: STFU noob, my build ruulz.

I've seen dozens of players with the winning combination of selfish and stupid in my two years playing GW. The henchies let me use the bathroom, make phone calls, and don't care if I stop to take my shoes off. They also don't have to leave 20 minutes into a run, after an hour of trying to form up a party. They'll never stop healing or over-aggro with the sole purpose of hoping I die so they can get my drops.

Also, I have several PVE characters. The thought of playing each of them through areas like Maguuma Stade makes me want to gouge my eyes out and play Windows Solitare till I die. I have two characters that have done every mission in every campaign. The rest, meh, I'll play my way.

Aphrodate · May 18, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

I prefer to play with people I know, because I know they would not leave or AFK. I had pretty bad experiences playing with people. Like the one time a guy begged me to take him with on a mission, so I felt sorry for the guy dropped one of my henchies and added him. Then he complained about this and that...so I basically changed my whole team for him (I know it's stupid, but I'm a people pleaser). So finally we entered and started the mission. I started to lag badly and disconnected en reconnected again....then he started swearing at me because I so slow and blah blah....all I could think was wtf I invited you and I did not ask you to join me, you asked me! I was actually glad when he left. Just there I decided that I will never invite someone again, only in cases like the Imperial Sanctum Mission where you do NEED to play with someone.